Also please provide one question of your own. After you post your response and question, be sure to respond to two of your classmates' questions.
This is due on Monday at midnight.
Good luck.
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About Me
- Todd's 110 Garage
- Born and raised near signs of Lewis and Clark's Missouri River portage, I now live in Auburn, WA and teach at Green River CC and Muckleshoot Tribal College. I have an M.A. in English literature from The University of Montana. I'm married and have no kids.
33 comments:
The Native American life that is conveyed in "The Red Convertible" is very significant. Thoughout the story there are many references towards being indian and living on the reservation. The role of the car and the love that the boys both have for the red convertible says just how much they appreciated the car and how it was rare that anyone on the reservation didn't even dream of having a car like that.
Another thing that conveys the Native American life in this story is when the family is talking about what to do with Henry and his health and the way he was acting. They dont want to take him to the doctor that is on the reservation but they also dont want to take Henry to a hospital because all they will do there is provide him drugs and pain-killers. I think that also, they might have been taking into consideration the price of taking Henry to a hospital and the amount of time he would have probably been there.
Do you think that the narrator(Lyman) is reliable in this story?
The Native American life that is conveyed in this story tells the reader alot. In this story once i read that the family in the story was an Indian family living on a reservation, everything seemed like a stereotype when i contiued reading. I think that the one thing that stuck out to me as converying this particular family is when the boys purchased the car. This car seemed to be a way out of their everyday normal life on the reservation. They both got to experience different places and not have to be sheltered in the reservation.
I also think that one of the major stereotypes that this story conveys about the Native Americans is the part in the story where Lyman is looking at Henry's picture on the wall and he says that he was drunk and stoned. This is always a major idea that is conveyed with Native Americans. Also they were, later in the story, down at the river drinking and to me that somewhat conveyed what the author thought or knew about many or some Native Americans.
Do you think that story would have been more interesting told from Henry's point of view?
Dillan Claire
Megan Larsen said...
The Native American life that is conveyed in "The Red Convertible" is very significant. Thoughout the story there are many references towards being indian and living on the reservation. The role of the car and the love that the boys both have for the red convertible says just how much they appreciated the car and how it was rare that anyone on the reservation didn't even dream of having a car like that.
Another thing that conveys the Native American life in this story is when the family is talking about what to do with Henry and his health and the way he was acting. They dont want to take him to the doctor that is on the reservation but they also dont want to take Henry to a hospital because all they will do there is provide him drugs and pain-killers. I think that also, they might have been taking into consideration the price of taking Henry to a hospital and the amount of time he would have probably been there.
Do you think that the narrator(Lyman) is reliable in this story?
Megan Larsen
I found the story's portrayal of Native American life very modern and without much emphasized difference from any other style of life, albeit of a lower class. Besides the character’s mentioning of the reservation they lived in, the reservations they drove through, the description of his brother’s nose and how his mother was upset at their town’s lack of an Indian doctor, nothing in the story wouldn’t have worked with characters of a different race. The narrators voice wouldn’t have been much different if he was black or white or from anywhere else in America. His relationships with his brother and mother and sister, I think, wouldn’t have changed either, if he was of different heritage.
Likewise, the setting had no explicit reference to the culture of Native Americans. If the author hadn’t mentioned the neighborhood being on a reservation, I wouldn’t have guessed that it was. Reading the story, the setting seemed a little run down. I think the narrator mentioned how, after their road trip and letting the car sit for a while, his red convertible looked no different from any of the other cars in the reservation, implying that there probably isn’t a lot of BMW's racing down the streets, making it obvious that this wasn’t an upper class situation. But I didn’t find any of the descriptions of the setting to be in explicit reference to the Native American lifestyle. They all would have worked somewhere else with someone else. The author may have refrained from paying much attention to culture or writing what we would expect from a Native American character to put more focus on the characters and what was happening to them. Or maybe he was attempting to comment on an issue he found important. I’m not sure.
?)why do you think the character destroyed the tv? what bothered him about the way his brother watched it? do you think there's any symbolism there?
One way the story conveys Native American life is by telling us why Henry is an asset to the war. At one point in the story, the narrator refrences the battles of Indians against the colonists in the Indian Removals. He talks about the fact that the Indians were proud and brave. This is a stereotype that has long been lost to the more insulting stereotypes of today.
The setting also plays a major role in conveying Native American life to the reader. The story takes place on a reservation, but more important than the geographic setting is the social setting. The narrator leads us to believe that he lives in a lower class neighborhood. He does this by talkin about buying the tv and comparing the red convertible to other "Indian cars." The social setting in this story tells us that Native Americans may have struggled financially. This may be another stereotype, but it is one that the story emphasizes.
This story takes place about 50 years ago, do you think the themes of this story would hold true had the story been written in a modern setting?
To Megan:
I think that the narrator could be seen as unreliable. He mentions being drunk and even being stoned. Also, beause his emotions are so entwined with the story he is telling, he may distort some details.
To Dillan:
I would have liked to have known more of Henry's personal thoughts. I felt that we didn't really get to know him and therefore did not understand him. Also, i wonder if he purposely killed himself or if it was a drunken accident?
To Trisha: I think that the themes in the story still wold have been mostly the same. I think that things are still very similar now on Indian reservation then they always have been. If anything i think that now they would be worse.
To Trisha: I think that there would me more dominant themes if it was in modern times. I do however think that there would ave been more impact on each of the characters and their roles. Also I think that Lyman would have been more understanding about his brother and not knowing what went on in the war that was hurting his brother so bad.
To Dillan: I think that the story would have been more interesting if we did know a little bit of what Henry was thinking. All through out the story i was wondering what he was thinkning. Also I dont think that it would have been as confusing, but i really was interested in knowing what Henry was thinking.
To Megan: I think the narrator was both reliable and unreliable. I think that he was reliable about telling all the events that occured in the story. I think that the narrator was really unreliable in describing the things that happened in the story. Alot if the time i was questioning his reliability and i thought that he was really stretching the truth quite a bit with some of the events in the story.
I think the native americans were conveyed as many differnt things. Because the narrator descibes himself as always having money and a job. He also kind of says how his brother also has money so he might be trying to show that native americans are rich.
But on the other hand the narrator never really talks about the rest of the reservation. So its almost like they are the only ones with really any money. The narrator says how he and his brother were the first ones to ever own or drive in a convertible so maybe hes describing the rest as being poor.
Do you think the setting and other details are true about the time period?
The Native American life that is conveyed in this story can be taken in many ways. Some may find these story offensives because it seems that there are a lot of stereotypes, and general categorizing. But also it can be taken in as a good way to understand their lifestyles and culture. Like how they didn't have a doctor on the reservation which means they all have to have their own kind of doctoring and medicine.
I think that the Native American life is also conveyed through the fact that Lyman did so many things trying to bring his brother back to normal, like how he ruined the TV. So that Henry couldn’t watch it anymore, and he took a hammer to the red convertible even though he cherished that car, so that Henry could fix it hoping that it would bring back his old brother, the brother he had before the war. I think that most people would have just brought Henry to a hospital so that they wouldn’t have to deal with him anymore so that their life would be easier.
Why do you think that Henry fixed the car even though he knew that Lyman messed it up on purpose?
to Zach:
i think that he destroyed the t.v. to help bring his brother back, and make him normal again. i don't think that it was really Henry watching it that bugged him, i think that it was the fact that it was all he did.
The Native American life conveyed in the story is extremely significant. In the beginning of the story when the narrarator talks about how he is the first person on the reservation to drive a convertible, it shows that this story is going to be very biased on the fact they might not have alot of things that we are used to seeing or using everyday.
Native American life also shows through when you see that the brothers are so content with sharing something that they both love very much. I think that another way that Native American life shows through the story is that the family wil not take their child to the reservation doctor because they are afraid of their son becoming hooked on the medicine of the "white man".
Q)Do you think that the reference of the narrarator's brother's boots filling with water at the beginning of the story was foreshadowing? What is the signifigance?
Zach:I think that the narrarator messed up the t.v. because he wanted to get his brother out of the house so that he can try and get him to start acting normal. I also think that he messed up the t.v. because he wanted his brother to get out and be with the car and work on it.
This story is more about the relationship between the two brothers, than the fact that they are Native Americans and happen to live on a reservation. I do think that it says a lot about the familial aspect of Native American life, which often tends to be pushed aside. There was such great concern for Henry when he came back from the army a different person, and so much thought was put into how they were going to help him (I think American culture tends to lend itself towards an easy fix and there wouldn't have been much discussion about him taking medication in order to "fix" him).
The story does include a few stereotypes of Native American life, and while it confirms those stereotypes (in the characters of this particular story), it also disproves others. The reservation is briefly described in a way that indicates a lower socioeconomic status, in that the people do not tend to have material possessions of a high monetary value, that they tend to shy away from a more modern medical approach, and that some tend to drink too much and take part in drugs. However, in contrast to the popularly held belief that Native Americans are a culture of lazy people, Lyman shows an incredible work ethic at a fairly young age (owning the Joliet Cafe at sixteen).
In the first paragraph of "The Red Convertible" the narrator speaks of how he and Henry owned the car "until his boots filled with water...and he bought out my share". What does this tell us about the story, and how is its importance later revealed to us (and yes, I know that Henry dies)?
I think that Lyman's narrating capabilities are threatened by the mentioning of being drunk and stoned later in the story, not to mention his great emotional involvment, but I also think that he has reliability in that he is giving us a first hand experience and we are not simply reading a bunch of hearsay.
I think the story would have been interesting from Henry's point of view because he may have described what he was going through in a way that made more sense than Lyman's interpretation. We would have gotten an understanding of why he was so different when he returned, knowing a little of what he went through, and would have known if his drowning was an accidental result of his alcohol consumption or if he had been purposefully trying to alleviate his family of a burden and save himself from a continual suffering. The mother didn't seem to have a large role in the story as it was written, but do you think we may have gotten any overlooked details if the story was written from her point of view?
The Life conveyed in the story was not that of an ordinary native american. There were no spirits talking to them (though that is a highly stereotypival thing to say). the family within the story seem to live like a normal family until Henry come back from the war not like himself at all.
A major part to me was the car. Even though title says it all, the car was kept in good shape. Indians seem to be notorious for having a bunch of run down cars in their yards and do nothing with them. Keeping that converitble in pritine shape definitely plays a major part in the story and says a lot about Lymann.
Do you think the car had a signifcant impact on the story?
In response to Courtneys question: I believe henry fixed the car up because it meant something not only to hime but to his brother to and i think he wanted to restore that connection
The Native American life that is conveyed in this story to me was actually a very sad one. The story talks a lot about how they are Indian, it is not just mentioned once or twice it's mentioned many times. At first i didn't know it was going to be such a significant part of the story but the more and more of it i read i started to wonder why the author kept making references to them being Indians. It was a sad to me that they talked about them living on the reservations because that was a time when that was still a very sensitive subject. Because it deals with the issue of them being drove out of their own homeland and being forced to live on reservations.
Another way that Native American life is conveyed in this story is how the brother died. It tells that the two young men were drinking alcohol by the river. That goes back to Native American history because Americans are the ones that introduced Indians to alcohol in the first place. It became a huge problem in the Indian society, and to this day is still highly abused. All of the things that they brought up in the story were all very typical sterotypes that people have of Indians. But on the flip side it shows how they were just a normal family. The older brother had to go to war and fight for his country and it shows how his family ahd to deal with that. And when he gets back from the war and is not the same it shows how they were all worried and stressed out. The younger brother even tried many things to get his borther to be normal again like for example when he messed up the car and the television.
Do you think the author would have been able to portray the same message had she chosen to use a different heritage?
To Dillan: Yes, i think the story would have been interesting if it would have been told from Henry's point of view. But i'm not sure if it would be more interesting i think either way it would have been. It just would have been nice to read his also.
To Anthonie: Yes, i think that car had a very significant impact on the story. Without the car there would have been no way of showing the brothers connection, also it was a symbol of the past to them and the way things used to be betweeen them.
I feel like the native american life portrayed in this story is stereotypical. If i hadn't known the setting was on an indian reservation i would not have put preconcieved notions into what i thought the setting looked like. Simply by knowing it was an Indian reservation, i immeddiatley associated it with the Muckleshoot reservation which when you drive through on the Auburn Enumclaw Highway, the houses look rather dumpy and run down. This made me think that the area Lyman and Henry lived in was dumpy. I thought this by their descriptions of the red convertible that they bought on impulse. They mentioned that a car like this would not be seen driving around their neighborhood and this tells us they could live in a poor community.
I also think that the way Henry died is stereotypical of native american lifestyle. My aunt is native american and grew up in a native american family where most of her relatives were alcoholics. When Henry died in the river it was because he was drinking and he jumped in. I personally know relatives that are native american that have died from alcohol induced accidents and it is a severe stereotype among native americans.
How do you think the story would be different if it were told from Henry's point of view?
To Dillan:
yes i do think the story would be much more interesting if it were told from Henry's point of view. I would like to know why he changed so much after the war and i would have liked to see the internal conflict he was feeling when he returned home.
To Courtney D.:
I think Henry fixed the car because it served as a connection to the past before he left for war. I think it is a good memmory that he has about his brother and he feels the need to repair the damage.
The Native American life converyed in the story is somewhat stereotypical. When he is describing the car he says it is not like the other cars on their neighbors lawns, that this one is actually nice. When the mother is talking about getting Henry to a hospital she says that she cant take him to one on the reservation and she is afraid to take him off the reservation because he will only be treated with painkillers and medication. This gives me the idea that at the lest the mother sort of sticks to around the reservation and doesnt go too far from home.
As i continued reading i began thinking that if the author had not mentioned Henry and Lyman being Indian i would not have guessed it. I might have predicted they were a little lower class because of how exciting having a nice car was. The narrator kept talking about the way they were Indian and lived on a reservation, so this might have been very important to him.
Is the Native American heritage important to the plot and theme of the story or is it simply a background detail?
To Jenna: Yes i think the same story could have been told if the protagonist was not Native American. The story was more about the relationship between these two brothers than their heritage.
To Dillan: I think the story would have been a lot different if told from Henrys point of view. He would be an unreliable character and his thoughts would be distorted. Although we might be able to get a grasp on the reasoning behind some of his actions.
I think the Native American life in the story is not very important to most of the story because it could have taken place in any part of the country that is a lower class community. I think the family could have been almost any other ethnicity and the story would still have the same effect. I think the convertible in any low class community would be looked at the same and I also think the TV would be.
On the other hand, the part when the family does not know what to do with Henry is somewhat less typical of any other ethnicity because they do not want to take him to a hospital where white people would just pump medicine into him and make him feel as if he were better instead of actuallly fixing him. Another thing to think about is that when they drink and the brother dies from jumping in the river because he is drunk is very stereotypical of Native Americans, but i also think that things like that happen to other ethnicities too. Just because they were drinking and he died does not make them Native American.
question: Why do you think the narrator pushed the car into the river, why wouldn't he have kept it like his brother had wanted him to?
Jenna- Yes I think the author could have gotten the same point across as long as it were still in a lower class community. I don't think it mattered what the ethnicity was.
Trisha- I think the story would have been the same had it taken place now, except for maybe the girl who was hitch hiking because there are not many of those these days.
I think that the native american life that is portrayed in the story is sometwhat stereotypical of many native americans, and not neccessarily in a positive way. The alcohol and drug abuse that is associated with some native americans, is present throughout the story. Also the socioeconomic class of their reservation was stereotypical of native americans, at least from my personal experience.
I think that, similar to my classmates, if the author had not specifically mentioned that the story took place on a reservation i dont think that i would have pictured the story taking place on a resevation. I probably would have thought that the story would have taken place in a lower income neighborhood, because of the car, and the importance that it held to them.
To Lauren: I think that the native american heritage is not very significant to the plot and theme, i think that the story could have been told with the same effect if the story took place in a lower class, neighborhood
To Megan: I dont think that the narrator in this story is reliable because of the pov that he has, also because of being drunk and stoned
What details would the author have to change in order to change the setting (indian reservation), to another?
I do not think that the Native American life was a very big part of the story. I wouldnt have known that they were Native Americans if it hadnt said so in the story. It just seemed like a lower income family situation.
However, with how much they loved the convertible and with how they worried about taking Henry to get help, it was clear that they were a lower class family. They spent all their money on the car so it was clear that it meant a lot to them. They also worried about the reservation doctor having a grudge against their family, which isnt really something that someone that is upper class would have to deal with.
my question
Why did he dump the car in the river?
responses
dillans question- Yes I think that it would have been really interesting if it would have been told from Henrys point of view.
jennas question- Yes I think the author would have been able to portray the same message if they would have used a different heritage. It just seemed like a lower class family.
The depiction of the Native American life tells the reader that this car was a very rare material object for the boy's culture to have. I believe that the boys worked so hard for what they got (being the car) that they both saw it to be unfair if only one enjoyed it. This shows how the Native Americans family is very important to them.
Another hint of the families closeness, is the mention of sending Henry to a doctor. The boy's mother would not hear of such a thing, in fear that Henry would be taken away. The Native American people seem very nuturing and I believe they thought they could help Henry.
MY QUESTION:
Why do you think the narrator could not keep the car?
2 Questions:
1. To Dillain; I think the story would have been much more interesting if it was told from Henry's point of view. To be able to understand all of henrys inner conflicts might have made more sense of the story.
2. To Courtney: I think the narrator destroyed the car because he wanted his old brother back, the one that was care free and loved that car. I think the narrator wanted to remind henry of his love for that car
to jeremy:
i think that the narrator (Lyman) dumped the car, because he didn't want it anymore because it reminded him of his brother, and his brother loved the car more than he did, so sense his brother died in the river he got rid of the car in the same river.
The Native American life conveyed in the story showed a boring and poor lifestyle. The narrator mentioned that making money came very easy for him. Immediately following that statement, he said that that was not too common among the Chippewa indian tribe. The way the native american people live is very layed back and money was hard to come by for members of the tribe. These situations relate to a lazy lifestyle.
The life conveyed for the native americans seemed to be centered around a closed society. The situation when Henry's family didn't want him going to a doctor away from town showed discomfort from separation. The families of the tribe seemed to stay together as one. Lyman had a close connection with his brother and never got him off his mind during the three and a half years that Henry was gone at war. Lyman never moved on from that, made new friends, or did much with his life. This situaiton shows how the native american lifestyle was family oriented and that family relationships were very important.
Question - What is the significance of Susy's character in this story?
In response to courtney d. - I think Henry fixed the car even though he knew Lyman messed it up, because it gave him a project to work on and a purpose to live for.
In response to Jillian Parker - I think if the story were told through Henry's point of view the story would not be very interesting because what we know of Henry is limited but he doesn't seem to be very motiviated, and after he returns from the war he is consumed with personal demons from the war experience.
My Response:
-The way Native Americans live is a key piece to understanding the story. Life on the reservation is different from how we live. One example of this is the car. Many kids have cars or their parents have cars. Though on the reservation, it was a big deal to own a car.
Native American culture emphasizes on families and being close to your relatives. In our modern culture, there are many divorces and distant relatives. The family in the story was very close knit and cared about each other. I can tell this by the concern and thought the members of the family put into finding help for Henry. They wanted to help him because they were worried about him.
My Question:
- Why would Lyman run the car into the river? Is that a satisfying ending to the story?
To Dillan:
- I liked the point of view the story was told in. Though, the story probably would have been a lot darker if it was told by Henry, which could make the story more interesting. I think the story would be dark and depressing because Henry was mentally changed- for the worse- from the war.
To Anthonie:
- I think the car played a very significant role in the story. Even looking at the title you can tell the car, "The Red Convertible", is a key part of the story. The car was like a symbol of the brother's, Lyman and Henrys, relationship. The brothers shared many special memories together in the car and the car impacted both of their lives in different ways.
The native american life that i observed through out the story was shown in little clues such as the detail used to describe nature. To native americans nature means a lot it is the substanance of their lively hood i observed the characters reference towards nature on page 341 he states "the season was changing", another example is when he describes the cold he refers to it as "mean" which is a different way of looking at it. He also describes something as "an animal in nature". They also refer to the taking henry to the doctor on the reservation. And Reservations were for indians which also provided a way of looking at the native American life.
My Question:
Why did the older brother calmly state that his boots were filling up if hes practically drowning?
To courtney D.
I think that henry fixed the car because it gave him something to do since he just got back from the war and was traumatized lyman wanted to give henry something to do.
in response to dillan:
yeah i think the story would have been more interesting because we would have known what Henry had been through without having to make conclusions
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